SWG Wiki talk:Creature Template
These are tied to the level of the creature after the CU, as far as I know: *Base-To-Hit: 0.3 *Damage: 150-160 *Attack Speed: 2 *Electricity: this elemental damage type doenst exist anymore, but Im not sure *Feriocity: might be related to levels to. Im not sure how large the differences between the variants will be with all creatures tied to levels. The table is just a worst case scenario, where they all are very different. Anyhow somebody here who knows more about creatures should edit this page first, before working on the individual creatures. --5C0UT 11:56, 16 Jun 2005 (CEST) : having a look at the kashyyk creatures, we never might get to know the armor of the creatures...--5C0UT 12:04, 16 Jun 2005 (CEST) ::I think the things that are tied to levels are hitpoints and damage. Everything else is tied to the specific creature. If you examine a creature from a mission spawn, it will even say the original combat level. I'm a Ranger on one of my toons, so I know a bit about creatures. I'll read up on the Ranger forum to confirm my theories. Pretty sure things like aggressiveness, ferocity, stalking, and attack speed are all the same no matter how inflated the CL becomes. If anyone knows the formula for hitpoints per combat level, that would be a cool thing to add somewhere. The damage per combat level is irrelevant, since it's the difference in combat level that determines damage, so it's a complicated formula. Suffice it to say that if you're more than one or two levels below the target, you're gonna get hit with a lot of damage. :) Electricity damage is still in the game. See Combat. Electricity and Acid are opposites. The LLC is an example of a weapon with Electricity damage. While Elemental damage is still not working properly (the fix for Publish 18 had more bugs than improvements), the visual effects do work to show whether you are dealing elemental damage. The effects for Cold damage are pretty cool, I think. :) --Tandalo 12:08, 16 Jun 2005 (CEST) :::The template looks good, except that Blast should be Electricity. The thing is I don't think Rangers can examine protection anymore. I know creatures don't wear armor, so I don't know if they even have protection from damage. So perhaps it just doesn't exist. My toon is nearly to Master Ranger, so I'll let you know when I get that last Creature Knowledge skill mod. I'll fix the Blast out for Electricity.--Tandalo 12:13, 16 Jun 2005 (CEST) :I really think it's irrelevent to have HAM on the creature stats page. HAM is strictly linked to the combat level of the creature. Since a particular creature could have a vast range of combat levels due to mission spawns, the HAM range is going to be just as wide, and thus not very helpful to know. When you examine a creature, you can tell what the "difficulty level" is, which I would assume is the combat level of the creature if you would find it in the wild naturally. So perhaps we should specify "natural combat level" or something like that for that statistic.--Tandalo 21:23, 17 Jun 2005 (CEST) :: Yo we got to get someone here with more knowledge of creatures. I took HAM into the template since all Kashyyk Creatures follow this example: Name - Chiss poacher Planet - Kashyyyk Level Range - 24-25 HAM - 3100-3500 Aggressive - Y Attack - Melee/Ranged Quest Related - Y Thus for certain creatures HAM exisits and I didnt wanted to throw those out. I havent touched Kashyyk Creatures yet, as those are pretty good besides that the varations should be on one page rather than on different pages, because I hardly know anything about creatures, and somehow I fear that we wont get any AR for any of the creatures making thus a part of the template absolete. --5C0UT 10:18, 18 Jun 2005 (CEST) :::I would say for any Kashyyyk creatures, use the HAM line. We'll keep it in the template. For creatures that can be generated from a mission terminal--and that's not every creature on each planet--we can just say so in place of the HAM stat. :::Yesterday I was out doing Bol missions on Dant with a group. We all grabbed 80ish Bol missions, but we found several other herds of higher-end CL bols. The "natural" difficulty level of bols are around 40, however. So for some creatures, you will find a very wide range of HAM. I do understand that on Kashyyyk the range is very narrow, so for that planet the template will work well.--Tandalo 10:55, 18 Jun 2005 (CEST) ::::I just got Master Ranger yesterday. It has the highest Creature Knowledge skill mod. This used to mean you get get all kinds of info for just examining a creature. Now this is what you get: *Aggressive *Stalker *Tamable *Meat type *Hide type *Difficulty Level *Base To-Hit (this is their accuracy) *Damage range (which is quite misleading, as this will change depending on difference in CL's) *Combat Difficulty (the conn) Missing post-CU is attack names, deathblow, ferocity, attack speed, and protections. I'm pretty sure protections don't exist for creatures any more anyway, and that attack speed is quite constant for all creatures (pretty much every 2 seconds). We'll have to check combat spam for attack names, but I haven't really seen anything besides "attack," except for ranged attacks like from Corellian Butterflies. Since special attacks likely changed with the Combat Upgrade, the SWGCreatures.com info will be out of date. Deathblow info will likely be accurate, however. ::::If anyone could confirm either way whether some creatures still have protections, that would be great. I will read my combat spam when I go hunting next time, to see if any of my damage is absorbed. Some creatures, like Rancor, really should have protection (description says it has natural armor), so I'll have to investigate. If all creature protection is gone, the template will be much more open. Anyway, I'll help gather creature info, but we should nail down the template first, to avoid later edits.--Tandalo 11:20, 18 Jun 2005 (CEST) : The combat spam can be put an brief and long. If you switch it will tell you what type of attack your opponent used. I'll wait till we got more information before I go out and change the template (and all creatrues so far) but I would change the template to resemeble what you get from examin to make the Stats List more familiar to rangers. --5C0UT 12:02, 18 Jun 2005 (CEST) ::Okay, I went out and got the Prima guide to the Total Experience today. Its tables for Creatures and NPC's is very detailed, such as whether mobs will help out others if one is attacked. There is also a "Creature & NPC Level Chart" that gives average Hitpoints, Damage range, and armor for all creatures/NPC's of each combat level. Rather than including those stats in the creature template, we can just make a page with the data for each combat level, as a reference, and link it to the Creatures and Enemies page. ::Needless to say I will add the extra info to the creature template. Since armor is linked directly to combat level, and the protections are even for all damage types, it makes sense to remove protections from the template. Whether or not we want to include the armor stat on a creature page is up in the air. If the combat level of the creature doesn't match the difficulty level, the stat will be different (just like the other stats from the Creature & NPC Level Chart). It all depends on what we think will be useful to know for the average visitor to the page.--Tandalo 22:51, 18 Jun 2005 (CEST) Heresy time -- links to SWGcreatures.com I really think we don't want to be in the business of replicating all the detailed database work that goes into SWGcreatures.com. Our strength is in providing the information that helps our users make sense of the SWG universe; we should take advantage of the work that others do in compiling and maintaining specialized databases. I suggest we stick to the textual information (such as the bulk of Bantha and link to a database for the stats. For instance, I would add a line at the end of the bantha matriarch section, where Template:SWGcreatures contains: SWGcreatures.com which would result in: . Note: that if the multiple entries match as in , we may end up with a list page: . So there may be some art to this if anyone knows the details of the DB URLs (or we can choose to hard code their creature IDs for the problem creatures into URLs for the down and dirty approach). Conclusion: we should be in the information business, not the data business. --SwordMage 12:54, 25 Sep 2005 (CEST) :While a nifty link like that would work wonders and dovetail well with how we set up our site, I see just one problem: SWGcreatures.com isn't very updated, especially since the Combat Upgrade. While it usually has a listing for most creatures, more often the not the data on it is old. For me the most frustrating aspect is that the creature page template is still about the old protection values and hard hitpoint values. I suggest we make a very noticable link to the site from the intro to Creatures & Enemies, clarifying that the site has more details, but may be confusing and out of date. :The info I use for adding/updating creature pages is from the Prima guide that came out with RotW, which was updated (after the Combat Upgrade) with all Kashyyyk creatures. For stats, the biggest thing we are really interested in is how the creature will react if we attack it. If it has a Spit attack, if it's Social, if it Deathblows, that kind of thing. I think the layout makes it quick to see that type of thing, and then adding a few things for CH's (babies and mountable) and Scouts (harvest types).--Tandalo 19:47, 25 Sep 2005 (CEST) :: I agree with your emphasis on the basic combat info (spit, social, deathblow, etc.). It can be useful to know that for each variation. However, two questions: ::* Is the SWG community better served by duplicating the SWGcreatures DB in a wiki or in adding to their data. Obviously, if SWGcreatures is not being kept current, then it is not the place to turn for data. ::* Can we lift data from the Prima guide without independent verification and use it in the wiki without fear of copyright problems? ::--SwordMage 20:22, 25 Sep 2005 (CEST) ::: RE: copyrights. Factual information cannot be copyrighted. It doesn't matter if PRIMA is the only company to have the information; they can copyright the layout and presentation of the information, but not the actual information itself. This is what prevents, say, Einstein from copyrighting e=mc^2. ::: As for SWG Creatures... if it can be shown that they're up-to-date, then I think I agree with SwordMage. --Influenza 22:01, 25 Sep 2005 (CEST)